Help - 1HZ fuel problem

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piston

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Madigan Madman

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Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:11 am

Help - 1HZ fuel problem

I nearly didn’t make it home last night. Without a tow truck anyway.

For the last weeks there has been a reoccurring, intermittent problem with the 1HZ.
Its been getting harder to start, all the time hot or cold, and when sitting at lights at idle it drops 2-3 hundred RPM and when accelerating away it won’t. The RPM goes up to around 2000 and stays there, the car starts blowing smoke and surges its way along the road for 3 to 4 hundred meters until it comes right. Embarrassing to say the least.

SO I thought it was a blocked fuel filter, changed it and it seemed to come right for 450 kms and then went silly again. Changed the filter again and it was ok for 30kms, until the lagging effect happened again at some lights. I tried to accelerate not much happened, got 300 meters and it became obvious the RPM was dropping slowly even though I was holding the accelerator in a fixed position.

Pulled over, not much choice and started cranking. It was trying to start, took three to four long cranks to get it to fire. I had to throttle the pedal to get it to keep going but it slowly died in a cloud of smoke.

Did this a number of times but it would not start and the smoke was getting embarrassing. Called wifey, went home and got tools and returned.

I disconnected the fuel line between the fuel pump and the filter and there was a fair bit of pressure in the line ??? this is not normal. So it seemed too much fuel was getting into the cylinders and drowning the combustion process. At the back of the fuel pump next to the dash pot is a lockable screw, I took a guess that it was a fuel adjusting screw and started to wind it out, the motor got progressively harder to start – but I got it to a position that I could hold an idle. Got Wifey to keep her foot on the accelerator and I started to wind the screw in – the motor responded to this and I could at least rev it up. It would not idle so I had to wind the idle adjustment screw in a far way to keep the RPM at around 1100 as it wanted to slowly die at around 750 rpm, normal idle speed.

Ok got home, but the motors not right. I have to re set the fuel pump, and I’m really not sure why this happened in the first place.

1 – Has anyone experienced this type of problem ? What was the out come.

And assuming there is nothing wrong with the fuel pump; and the fuel return lines are not blocked.

2 – I need to know what the procedure is for setting the fuel pump back to normal. My Gregorys workshop manual tells me stuff all about the fuel pump.

Help !!!

PP
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Hilux99

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Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:34 am

Bad fuel maybe did you drop the contents off the tank?
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Ferrit

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Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:48 am

Air- you have an air leak somewhere in the suction side- the hilux diesel did the same thing when a seal leaked on the filter- or when i go down a hill with bugger all in the LR tank and the fuel all runs away from the pickup! :lol:
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piston

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Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:40 pm

No, I'm sure the fuels good - reputable brand and reseller.

I have had air in the lines befor and although the symptoms are similar I don't think thats the problem. However I will go out now and pump some fuel into a jar and se if there are bubbles in it.

PP[/u]
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GOM

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Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:19 pm

ute or wagon?? dont forget the ute has a pre filter which is the one that clogs
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piston

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Post Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:17 pm

Its a wagon.
I reset the idle to 1000rpm and reset the screw/adjustment/thingy that sits one top of the fuel cut off solonoid and it seems happy enough to idle now even at 750 rpm. It revs up quickly again which it did not do last night.

I disconnected the fuel hose between the filter and pump and got a long piece of clear PVC tubing and started priming into a 2ltr clear bottle.

After clearing the filter of air there really was not enough/obvious air bubbles to cause the pressurisation that was evident last night.

I pumped 4ltrs from the main tank and 4 ltrs from the sub and all the fuel came through the filter without any air in it. I then connected the PVC tube to the pump inlet and idled it on both tanks for half an hour each
and still no obvious air leakage or sign of trouble and it reved fine :? :? Yes I am confused.

PP
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roscoFJ73

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Post Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:03 pm

You didnt mention how many klms on the pump. The rotary pumps on these are notorious for wearing out around 200000 klms
Ive had 2 rebuilt ,usually the 1st sign is lack or power at highway speeds.
They are ok when cold but as the engine/pump warm up power drops off.

Some swear by adding a electric pump in the feed line but Ive never tried it.
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rubbaduck

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Post Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:46 pm

That is strange after what you've done cause it sounds like an air leak to me as well. :?

Best of luck.
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Hog

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Post Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:50 pm

Sounds like air to me, goes underneath and check/replace all the clamps on the fuel hoses to the main and sub tanks..they got me with their cheap clamps..

What fuel filter you running..standard ?
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Kev

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Post Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:17 am

Re: Help - 1HZ fuel problem

pistonpop wrote:I disconnected the fuel line between the fuel pump and the filter and there was a fair bit of pressure in the line ??? this is not normal. So it seemed too much fuel was getting into the cylinders and drowning the combustion process.


Remember that 1 teaspoon of liquid in a cylinder & the engine is history, don't think its that.

pistonpop wrote:However I will go out now and pump some fuel into a jar and se if there are bubbles in it.


Thats funny. :lol:

Anyway, why can't it be water in the fuel ?

Id guess its injectors &/or pump.
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piston

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Post Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:13 am

Kev it's not water I checked the filter drain and emptied the contents into a jar. No water.

Wholehog - no I have been running cheap filters bought of the net, $12 bucks each delivered to door. But I change then every 8 -10 K. as I run a lot of Bio Diesel. But I have been doing this for a fair while and have not encountered a problem like this before.

I pulled the fuel pick-up and sender out of the main tank on the weekend and cleaned both. Checked the main tank air vent filter/water blocker thingy and replaced that with a petrol filter just to allow more air in the vent - this would get rid of any excessive vacuum that might cause air to get sucked in to the line.

I drove many short hops on the weekend to about 5ks max and there was not sign of a problem.

Drove into work today and at the usual place, 9ks the same hassels started. Surging, not idling and not accelerating away from a prolonged idle at lights. Puffs of white smoke and just being sh^^ty. :x

I spoke to a mechanic I know who has the same vehicle and engine, he said there is a filter inside the fuel pump that is probably blocked.

Too much for me. I don't know if I can get anywhere now with confidence before it stuffs up for good.

Booked in to a diesel shop this Thursday - Ouch.

Keep you posted.

PP
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roscoFJ73

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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:04 am

pistonpop wrote:
I spoke to a mechanic I know who has the same vehicle and engine, he said there is a filter inside the fuel pump that is probably blocked.

PP

Thats an easy one to fix yourself. Underneath the fuel cut solenoid is a strainer,I guess thats the same as a filter.
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piston

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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:39 am

[quote="roscoFJ73"][quote="pistonpop"]

I spoke to a mechanic I know who has the same vehicle and engine, he said there is a filter inside the fuel pump that is probably blocked.

PP[/quote]
Thats an easy one to fix yourself. Underneath the fuel cut solenoid is a strainer,I guess thats the same as a filter.[/quote]

Thanks rosco, I will check it out.

I contacted another diesel workshop yesterday and explained the sytmptoms, like the other mechanics they did not really know :? However they gave me the name of a fuel pump specialist, so I called and spoke to a guy there who was really helpfull. After listening to my story he said ( this really does'nt sound like a pump problem as it is occuring intermittently, and thought straight off that it was a fuel starvation issue.

He suggested I isolate the whole tank system from the fuel filter onward, and rig up another temporary tank. If the motor runs ok then its either blocked fuel lines or the cross over solanoid valves.

I did that and guess what the vehicle ran perfectly :D My new tank sits on the passenger side floor. He also said that if the problem is with the tanks/lines/valves that is probably likely to be the valves. 80-20% I know where I will take the vehicle if I ever have an issue I cant fix.

So I now have to blow the lines and if the problem still exists it will be the valves.

At least I am getting somewhere with this - If I had accepted the mechanisc mantra of bad fuel (bio diesel crap) and " it's going to be the pump" it would have cost me a sh^t load of money.

They just wanted to rip out the pump, send it away to be reconditioned which would have cost a bomb and the problem would have still existed :evil:

It pays to do your research.

PP

PS How do you get a quote to come up in the white box - I've tried but cannot get it to work :?:
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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:54 pm

It pays to do your research

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piston

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Post Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:28 pm

Well, I blew out all the lines from the main fuel filter inlet right through to the pick up filters in both tanks - could not really determine anything from that, so the next thing was to pull out both fuel solenoid valves and check their condition.

The fuel return valve seemed fine, so the last thing and the most fiddly was the main solenoid valve and bingo, there was definitely a blockage. So much so that the blockage was restricting fuel flow from both tanks but was allowing a bit of flow from the sub tank.

I rang TOYOTA and got the price of the main valve $280 Inc GST so I had to check the operation and clean it if it worked. I worked fine great, now I had to find a way of cleaning.

With a small torch I had a look down the valve hose tails and I could see hair and some red waxy stuff ? It had a fur ball :o so I soaked it over night in isopropyl alcohol (don’t know if this had any effect) and blew the valves with compressed air in both directions. The hair and stuff persisted a bit but got right in there and gave it a really good blow job :) This did the trick.

I removed the sub tank from the vehicle and then pulled out the pickup, cleaned the filter just to sure to be sure. (what a job that was the spare tyre cross member had to be removed and then a U bracket that the tyre sits against, to get at the tank)

So it’s all back together and I will have to bleed all the lines and test tomorrow as rain stopped play this arvo.

Total cost $180.00 for a 24 cft air compressor, hose and fittings, It’s only a baby but I’m not a builder or spray painter and I needed one anyway seemed like a perfect excuse.

Where the hair and red waxy stuff came from I have no idea !!! must be that crappy bio-fuel :lol:

PP
Last edited by piston on Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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