New Prado - Turbo Diesel or v6 ??

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Hugo

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:26 pm

New Prado - Turbo Diesel or v6 ??

Thinking about stumping up and buying a new or near new 120 series Prado, but can't find a v6 to take for a test drive (only a previous model 3.4 litre)

Apart from prolonged engine life and generally better fuel economy, (offset almost completely by higher servicing costs), what are the advantages behind buying a less powerful diesel donk over a higher powered petrol one? I know they are torquier off road at low revs but given I will be 90% on road (kilometre wise, not time wise), would the petrol be a better investment? Will be doing some towing (camper or boat), some off road, but mostly on road, looking to keep vehicle for long term (250 000 - 300 000 kms).

Cost of engines is identical when new, so purchase cost is not an issue in choosing.

Had a trawl through all available reviews etc, but hard to find a good argument about pros and cons of TD vs Petrol.

Advice from those in the know appreciated.

Ken H
Hugo The Prado
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Flappa

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:44 pm

My BIL & SIL have bought a new V6 Prado. Compared to the previous 3.4, there is no comparision. Its a sweet motor. Personally, unless you really really want a diesel, the 4.0l V6 would be the easy pick.
Cheers

Graeme
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Dave W

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:45 pm

Mostly on road, the petrol is probably better, but I believe the new TD in the Prado is pretty spec.

My advice is drive them both and take the one you like the feel of. Basic I know, but diesels are now so friendly.

Probably the biggest difference you will find is trying to find the diesel pump at the servo - that can be frustrating sometimes! :x
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Romans 6  23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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alki

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:18 pm

Petrol,
Diesel Prado is "old tech" and not very powerfull.
There might be replacment diesel engine comming in next year so that would affect resale value.
4.0 petrol is new engine and will stay for a while.
patrol III 3.0 few extras
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Dave W

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:21 pm

Ooooh sorry, am I getting it mixed up with something else?

I thought their TD was pretty good? Sorry for the mis-information.

Result the same though - probably petrol, but drive them both!
Romans 3: 23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 6  23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Personal attacks are the tools of someone who probably doesn't have a very good point to make, or of someone who holds a belief that has no foundation in reasoned thought. Quoted from another forum.
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Flappa

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:28 pm

Their 3.0 TD IS VERY good , its just "old". Been around for some time.

There would be nothing wrong with buying the Diesel as such, but as mentioned , may be replaced. Might be worth holding out for cheapies if or when the new Diesel comes along.

I test drove both the 3.4 and 3.0 when I was looking for a vehicle. The 3.4 was nice, the 3.0 was acceptable, if you want a diesel, but I found the 4.0 superior to both. Just my view though.
Cheers

Graeme
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horace

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:58 pm

Ken H :)

I have an auto 3.0 TD Prado bought new about 4 months ago.

The 4.0 Petrol is a much better performer on road as it is a newer high tech engine. However, the TD, although a much older design, is very well proven and I find the performance is adequate and in keeping with the type of vehicle.

One of the good points of the TD is the fuel economy.

My vehicle has done only 5000 kilometres but on a recent trip we got 1660 Kilometres out of a 180 litre tank (and it was not completely empty :!: )

Even though you will be driving primarily on road (as in my case), I think you would find the performance ot the TD acceptable and the extra torque of the TD would be an advantage when towing.

Good luck in your search :)
Regards,
Horace
2006 Landcruiser Sahara TD Auto
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Hugo

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:26 pm

horace wrote:Ken H :) Horace, (and others)

Thanks for the info.

I did some calcs based on Toyotas specified servicing. I worked out that (theoretically) the fuel cost saved by driving a TD would be eaten up by the extra servicing of a grease and oil change every 5000kms (particularly by a mech to preserve warranty). Does your experience bear this out? Also, how do you think they would compare when towing (a test that I cannot find in reviews (hint hint overlander!))

Thanks again,
Ken H

I have an auto 3.0 TD Prado bought new about 4 months ago.

The 4.0 Petrol is a much better performer on road as it is a newer high tech engine. However, the TD, although a much older design, is very well proven and I find the performance is adequate and in keeping with the type of vehicle.

One of the good points of the TD is the fuel economy.

My vehicle has done only 5000 kilometres but on a recent trip we got 1660 Kilometres out of a 180 litre tank (and it was not completely empty :!: )

Even though you will be driving primarily on road (as in my case), I think you would find the performance ot the TD acceptable and the extra torque of the TD would be an advantage when towing.

Good luck in your search :)
Hugo The Prado
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Ferrit

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:13 pm

pretty sure you will find that the 3.0 TDI in the prado has a 10,000 km service intervals- im 90% sure that our friends series 1 3.0 TD prado RV is a 10,000 km interval jobie


As for diesels sludging up the oil and therefore needing frequent replacing of oils, mates prado had 8000ks on that service and his oil was as clean as when it went in, just a shade or two darker.

Its a gem of a motor, And while the block may only be a 2.8 bored and stroked (and the 2.8 is a 2.4 Bored and stroked, and a 2.4 is only a 2.2 etc etc etc) Believe me thats about where it ends. The 1-KZTE was designed as a turbo diesel from the ground up, and has all the proper work done to it, like better airflow in the head, better cam shapes and a few other things. I believe the bottom end and the oil pump and filter system was beefed up too.

Just because its a 3.0 L SOHC motor- and isnt a DOHC DID 3.0 like the nissan or jack motors doesnt mean its not a great motor- still has plenty of get up and go and romps along at 110 happily- and ive had one up to 150 during an overtaking exercise with a prat nissan driver.

as for fuel econonmy, mates prado went from mt gambier to adelaide to blinman and up bush for a week, then back to adelaide and only used 1/2 the main tank and didnt touch the sub
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PG

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:54 pm

You'd want have a good reason not to get the 4 litre V6.

Running costs are the same as the diesel by the time you factor in slightly higher cost of diesel, small difference in fuel consumption and higher maintenace costs of the diesel (Ferrit, oil changes are 5k on the diesel).

I own a diesel because I like doing the long desert trips (range is important), and like the way they crawl over rocky stuff.

The 1KZ-TE is a very nice, smooth reliable motor with a huge amount of torque. Streets ahead of the Nissan 3 litre in most respects. But chances are that Toyota will replace it with the DOHC version and add a 5 speed auto option when they get around to the first upgrade. If you want a bit extra, then get a Dtronic for the 120 series TD.

At present, the 4 litre V6 is state of the art. The only complaints about that motor at present is the noisy manifolds.
Phil G
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tdprado

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Post Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:00 pm

Hi Ken,

I bought a new auto TD after having previously owned a 2000 manual TD from new. The auto is just fantastic in the sand after having a manual. Also much better in traffic where mine spends a lot of time as it is my work vehicle.

Yes, the diesel is not as powerful as the petrol, but we only have 110km speed limits which the diesel easily cruises at. 2400rpm at 110kph, 4400rpm redline. I don't need any more speeding tickets.

This motor has been around overseas prior to the 2000 model Prado, which has the same motor and is well refined. Since it is only a SOHC, I expect a long time before a rebuild as it is a strong motor that is relatively unstressed. The new motor in the future I have heard will be the same basically but with a DOHC. 120KW with 343Nm torque compared to the current 96/343.

Did 470km last week in the soft sand up near Rainbow Beach in Qld with absolute ease. Averaged 13.5l/100km with 500km road as well, fully loaded with gear and four people. Still had 50 litres in secondary tank left. Over 20000km I have averaged 12.4l/100km. I have roof racks fitted at all times which adds a bit of drag.

Diesel engine bay has oodles of room for adding extra goodies such as dual batteries, compressor etc. I think this would be a lot harder to do in the petrol engine bay.

I also did not like the location of the exhaust system in the petrol model. Too exposed and would be easily damaged.

Either way you go, they are a very nice vehicle. There are a lot of accessories such as tyres and suspension bits starting to appear on the market and you will have a good base to build on, whilst not being in the extreme category.

All Prado diesels are 5000km service intervals. I change the oil in my petrol Falcon every 5000km anyway.
2007 Toyota Prado GXL - D4D 5sp/auto

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Rav4ZR6

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Post Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:34 am

I own a 2003 Prado GX TD.

I bought it on the last day of Feb, and took delivery the second week in March.

It's done 20,000 km so, including the trip to cape york in July. I haven't driven it for 6 months though (lost Licence).


The car lacks a big of grunt offroad, particularly with the bigger tyres i run (285/75/16), although i am hoping the Safari Dtronic will help in this area, it certainly did on the 3.0 Patrols (although the different Diesel technology, the gains in the Prado will not be as dramatic as the Patrol.)

If it wasn't for the fact i wanted this vehicle for some long distance remote travelling, where diesel was the fuel of choice, i would, without any hesitation prchase the V6. The added power and the marginally worse fuel economy would be welcome.

I Also chose the Prado in Diesel form for the long standing reliability of the engine and drivetrain, despite being a new model, with significant changes from the previous model (like a lot beefier front end suspension and steering, Diff/CV ) the Engine remains fairly simple and trouble free.

only issue to date with mine is the power window switches. Which have played up once and been replaced, and have since just died again.

I start driving again next monday. :) Can't wait.

Steve
Steve
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RainMaker

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Post Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:16 am

Sorry, I can't give a comparison between the two, but I can give my opinion of the V6.
I have the V6 GXL, manual. Couldn't be happier with it.
My previous car was a VU SS Ute (for sale if anyone interested), and while I miss the hugh grunt of the SS, the Prado is no slouch.
I live in the Adelaide Hills and travel to the city each day. So far I've averaged about 12.5 ltrs/100km after 6500km on PULP. This is a combination of city/hills/freeway driving. I don't baby the car though I don't thrash it either.
It's comfortable and easy to drive, and quiet inside too. Enough power to pass easily, even in top gear. Driving up some of the steeper hills on Adelaide's South Eastern Freeway there's no need to change down, It'll keep cruising at 110km/hr with minimal effort.
I'm in the process of setting things up for longer distance travelling, so I can't give any info on long distance/bush running. Currently installing the dual battery, a bonus being that a full size battery will fit.
Good luck making your choice.

Tony
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horace

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Post Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:28 am

Ken Harrison wrote:I did some calcs based on Toyotas specified servicing. I worked out that (theoretically) the fuel cost saved by driving a TD would be eaten up by the extra servicing of a grease and oil change every 5000kms (particularly by a mech to preserve warranty). Does your experience bear this out? Also, how do you think they would compare when towing (a test that I cannot find in reviews (hint hint overlander!))


Ken H :)

I recognise that the 5000k oil changes are a costly extra (my first 5000k service cost $116.75) but am prepared to accept that for the better economy and therefore better touring range as well as the better availability of diesel in remote areas.

For my last 3 fills, economy was 10.7, 12.0 and 10.8 litres per 100 k

The TD is very quiet cruising at 100 or 110 kph and performs very well on the open road.

Anyway, I am very happy of my choice of the TD :D

I am interested in your comment on oil changes and warranty. Are you saying that Toyota will not honour warranty if changes are not done by a dealer or a mechanic (presumably at a service station) :?:
Regards,
Horace
2006 Landcruiser Sahara TD Auto
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BrettD

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Post Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:51 pm

RainMaker wrote:Currently installing the dual battery, a bonus being that a full size battery will fit.
Good luck making your choice.Tony


The only advantage is that it makes the installation easier, I have an 85 AH "Exide extreme sized" Deep cycle in my 120 series Prado V6.

TJM fitted it, they just had to move 1 or 2 other parts.

As for range, I have 1120kms on the clock with a tiny bit left in the tank right now since the last fill-up, 50-50 freeway and suburbs driving.

Brett D
'03 Toyota Prado Grande V6
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